Interviews from the world of music!

Written By:  Michael D. McClellan | Bill Walton wins an NBA championship, an NBA Finals MVP Award, and an NBA Most Valuable Player Award before vanishing into rumor, missing three full seasons and playing only 14 games in another, the one-time “Next Great Thing” undone by feet not designed to support a man his size, the pain taking him on a decades-long journey that includes 37 orthopedic operations and an inner-dialog dominated by thoughts of suicide. In his darkest moments, Walton lay prone on the floor, unable to move, his spine having collapsed, wishing only that he had a bottle of pills, or a bottle of whiskey, or a gun. He can think of nothing else but the radiating nerve pain, pain so severe that no life is the better alternative to the one in which he finds himself trapped. This is a side of Bill Walton the public never sees, at least not until he pulls the curtain back in his 2016 memoir, Back from the Dead, giving readers a backstage pass to three hellish years spent on the floor of his house, eating his meals flat on his stomach, crawling to the bathroom, barely able to hoist himself into bed.

“I’m getting back into the game of life,” Walton says, smiling. “Before I had my spine surgery, it got to the point where my life wasn’t worth living. I was useless. I can’t describe the pain—people who haven’t experienced nerve pain can’t relate. It’s debilitating, excruciating, unrelenting. Today, I’m pain-free.”

Walton’s story unfolds with an idyllic childhood in La Mesa, California, transitions to a counterculture lifestyle that’s alien to mid-70s NBA, and descends into an injury-ravaged abyss that undercuts his vast potential. It’s a long, strange voyage filled with contradictions.

“I had the most wonderful childhood,” Walton begins. “We had nothing, but I had everything. My mom was our town librarian, so I had an endless supply of books. That was my life. I’ve never been a television watcher—I’m not really much of a spectator, I like doing things. I had a transistor radio and a basketball. I also had a bike and a skateboard, so I could go places on my own. But that was nothing compared to the places I could visit through the books that my mom brought home daily. The mental travels from those books, and from reading the LA Times in those days, were my form of escape.”

It’s his mother who sets Walton on his path to basketball greatness.

“In 1964, my mom brought home the first sports book that I ever read, which was Go Up For Glory, written by the incomparable Bill Russell. She said, ‘Billy, this book just came into the library, and I know that you have been outside playing basketball, whatever that is, so I thought this might be of interest to you.’ I devoured every aspect of that book, and I never gave it back to her. I read it over and over and over again. When I joined the NBA, one of the first checks that I ever wrote was to the San Diego library for the book that I never returned.”

Walton’s passion for basketball begins not at the playground with other children but as a solitary endeavor.

“I loved playing basketball by myself. I was very awkward and shy, so I was by myself all of the time. There was Little Billy with his red hair, and his freckles, and his big nose, and his goofy, nerdy looking face, and this horrendous speech impediment—I couldn’t speak at all without stuttering horribly. But I could play basketball, and I could practice by myself. I would be playing these imaginary basketball games out in the backyard, with legendary Laker broadcaster Chick Hearn transporting me to the NBA where I’d play games as a member of the Boston Celtics. I was 12 at the time and never in my wildest dreams thought that I might one day be doing it for real.”

Walton pauses, his mind on constant fast-forward and rewind.

“It is impossible to understate the importance of the Boston Celtics in my life. They were my favorite team as a young boy chasing the dream of being part of the NBA. I’m from San Diego, but I developed my love for the Boston Celtics because of Chick, who spoke with such awe and respect for the Celtics. He was so complimentary of Red Auerbach, Bill Russell, and of all of the players on those great championship teams of the ’60s, even though his job was to sell everything Lakers. So here was Little Billy in San Diego, with his transistor radio under the covers, listening to Chick talk about the incredible accomplishments of the Celtics. That’s what I wanted to be a part of, so it was the perfect situation.

Bill Walton, Sports Illustrated cover boy: Two-time NCAA Champion. Two-time NCAA Final Four Most Outstanding Player. Three-time national college player of the year. Three-time consensus first-team All-American. Two-time NBA champion. NBA Finals MVP. NBA Most Valuable Player. NBA Sixth Man of the Year. NBA 50th Anniversary Team.

“I love all things Boston.”

Little Billy continues to grow, and it’s hard not to notice his potential. Walton attends Helix High School, where he grows into the most coveted basketball player on the planet. Helix captures the California Interscholastic Federation High School title two years running, all while winning its final 49 games. He’s 6–10 when he graduates in 1970, setting the national record for field goal percentage (79 percent), but some of Walton’s favorite high school memories are created away from the court.

“I went to my first Grateful Dead concert when I was 15 years old and immediately fell in love with them. There’s this great community and tribal spirit that comes with being a Dead Head. Going to the concerts was the most fun in the world. Everybody’s happy, everybody’s dancing, and everybody’s jumping up and down. The music is phenomenal. The whole experience is one of joy and love.”

Walton enrolls at UCLA in 1970, following in the sizable wake of Lew Alcindor (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar). It’s an impossibly high bar to clear, but Walton matches Abdul-Jabbar as a three-time Consensus First Team All-American, and as a three-time recipient of the NCAA Player of the Year Award. It’s during Walton’s freshman season that UCLA starts a mind-boggling win streak that spans four seasons. It begins on January 30, 1971, with a victory over UC Santa Barbara. He joins it 15 games later, his brilliance helping stretch the streak to 88 straight, including two consecutive 30–0 seasons and three national championships.

Bill Walton: A three-time Consensus First Team All-American, and a three-time recipient of the NCAA Player of the Year Award

“January 19, 1974,” he says, when asked what he remembers most about the streak. “The loss at Notre Dame. We wanted a third undefeated season, but it didn’t happen. That loss was a punch to the gut.”

The disappointment is easy to understand. As a sophomore, a Walton-led UCLA rolls to a 30–0 season by outscoring its opponents by 30.3 points a game, an NCAA record that still stands. A year later, Walton and the 1972–73 Bruins again go undefeated and again cut down the nets. By his senior season, the streak and the chase for perfection becomes a national preoccupation.

The loss to Notre Dame was a harbinger of things to come,” Walton says. “At any other program, finishing 26–4 and reaching the Final Four would be a cause for celebration. But, like those great Celtics teams, we wanted to win every game we played, and we wanted to go out on top.”

Doesn’t happen. The Bruins lose two more regular season games, and then, on March 23, 1974, North Carolina State beats UCLA 80–77 in double-overtime in the National Semifinal at the Greensboro (NC) Coliseum, in what is widely regarded as one of the greatest NCAA tournament games ever. The loss marks the end of the Bruins’ seven-year national championship run.

Coach Wooden never talked about the streak,” Walton says. “He never mentioned winning, period, because that was a byproduct of everything else that went into preparing to play the game. He kept us focused on doing things the right way. That’s why losing to North Carolina State in the Final Four was so difficult for me to overcome.”

Bill Walton and his legendary head coach, John Wooden

Along the way, Walton becomes not only one of Wooden’s favorite pupils, but also one of his biggest challenges.

“I knew I was Coach Wooden’s worst nightmare because I fought him on everything. I always wanted to know why,” says Walton, who finishes his college career as a three-time Academic All-American. “Why were we in Vietnam? Why did I have to cut my hair? Why did I have to shave? Why was Nixon president? I was never satisfied.”

Walton has countless stories like these. Some have morphed into urban legend.

John Wooden used to place a lucky penny in the corner of the locker room each year and pretend to find it as he was giving a pregame speech,” he says, smiling. “Well, I ended up stealing John Wooden’s lucky penny. One day I received an anonymous letter stating that there was a curse on me, and that the only way to break the curse was to go to the Philippines and see this witch doctor. Trust me, when you’re the most injured athlete in the history of sports, you can’t say it doesn’t cross your mind.”

The Next Great Thing’s fairytale ride starts hitting potholes in Portland. Selected by the Trail Blazers with the first overall pick of the 1974 NBA Draft, Walton’s first two years are marred by a constant string of injuries, causing him to miss 78 of 164 games.

Bill Walton, Portland Trail Blazers

Walton misses time with a broken nose and then follows that indignity with injuries to his wrist, leg, and foot. When healthy, he redefines the center position with his vision and passing. In his third season, Walton plays in a career-high 65 games, spearheading the Blazers’ run through the playoffs. He refuses to be singled out for his greatness, instead crediting everyone else as the difference makers against Philadelphia in the 1977 NBA Finals.

“It was a total team concept,” Walton says of Portland winning the championship. “We trusted each other, and we trusted the system. I played my part, and I tried to play it well, but the truth is, we had Maurice Lucas, and nobody else did. We had Jack Ramsey, and nobody else did. And, just as importantly, we had the Blazermaniacs, and nobody else did.”

An avid biker, Walton endears himself to those Blazermaniacs by biking to Memorial Coliseum on game days. His counterculture lifestyle, seen by many around the country as strange and off-putting, is right at home in Portland.

Bill Walton’s counterculture lifestyle fit perfectly in Portland

“The crowd made me better; the crowd made me high,” says Walton. “They knew they made us better, and that drove them to give us even higher levels to delirious celebration and support.”

It’s in Portland that Walton’s love affair with the Grateful Dead reaches new heights when he’s recognized at a concert. It’s a memorable affair for all involved.

Walton wins the NBA MVP Award following the 1977–78 season, even though he only plays in 58 games. By the All-Star Break the Blazers are 40–8, and winners of 44 straight at home, but on March 5, Walton has surgery on the nerves in his right foot. That foot heals, but now something is wrong with the left. He misses 22 straight games, returning to play 34 gutsy minutes in the playoff opener against Seattle, scoring 17 points and grabbing 16 rebounds in a losing effort. It’s clear to anyone watching that Walton is not healthy.

“The beginning of the end in Portland,” he says.

Walton’s recurring foot injuries cut years off his career and derailed a potential dynasty in Portland.

Still in pain, Walton faces a dilemma; rule himself out for a must-win Game 2, or take an injection of Xylocaine, an anesthetic. Walton takes the shot. He plays. And while the Blazers win to even the series, Walton’s season, and his career in Portland, is over.

I played on a broken foot,” Walton says. “I didn’t want to let my coaches down, or let my teammates down. It turned out to be the wrong decision, because it was based on immediacy. We needed to win that game to avoid a 2–0 hole against the SuperSonics. I wasn’t thinking about my long-term health.”

The injury leads to legal action and finger-pointing, with Walton sitting out the entire 1978–79 season in protest. After the season he signs with the San Diego Clippers, returning home but playing in just 102 games over five years.

And then, just when he considers walking away for good, Red Auerbach and the Boston Celtics come calling.

The Trade goes down during the summer of ’85.

Auerbach, unhappy with Cedric Maxwell’s injury rehab, swings a blockbuster deal that delivers Bill Walton to Boston. The feud between Auerbach and Maxwell goes public, with both sides taking the low road; Auerbach strikes mention of Maxwell in an upcoming book, while Max leaves town throwing shade.

Rebirth: Walton joins the Celtics in the Summer of ’85, the final piece in one of the greatest teams of all-time.

With Red, loyalty was a two-way deal,” Walton says. “Red created a culture of trust, family, loyalty, pride, all the things that we love and mean so much to us. He expected us to be wholly vested in his vision, and the temporary falling out with Cedric Maxwell was, in Red’s mind, a violation of that trust. He felt that Cornbread hadn’t worked hard enough at rehabbing his knee injury, and Red considered it an affront to the Celtic Way. I’m just glad that they were able to get past their differences because Cedric was a special player who helped the Celtics win two championships.”

For Walton, who grows up idolizing Bill Russell, The Trade is a dream come true.

“The Celtics didn’t give me my career back, they gave me my life back,” he continues. “To be able to go from the bottom to the top in one plane ride was just staggering. I had early success in my career, but the endless string of injuries destroyed everything. The Celtics gave me a chance to be a part of something special, which has always been my dream in life.”

Walton’s medical history is of prime concern, but it isn’t the only concern; the media and the fans immediately wonder whether Walton and starting center Robert Parish can coexist.

Walton battles Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

“Meeting with Robert Parish was the very first thing that I did when I arrived in Boston,” Walton explains. “When I got off of the airplane, M. L. Carr was there to pick me up. M. L. wasn’t going to be on the team that season because he’d transitioned to something else, but he was still part of the Celtic family. We hadn’t left the airport yet. I said, ‘M. L., take me over to Chief’s house, I’ve got to talk to him.’

“I went over to his house, and I looked at him, and I said, ‘Robert, I just want you to know that I’m only here to help you. I’m not here to take anything from you. I’m here to add to what you’ve already done, to what you’re currently doing, and to what you are going to do.’ I’m a team guy. That’s what I’m all about. I needed Robert to hear that come from me personally because that’s the way a team is supposed to work. And Robert could not have been nicer. It was so fun to play with him. I love that guy so much.”

Once training camp starts, a healthy and reinvigorated Bill Walton falls in love with his sport all over again.

“I had played against Robert Parish, and I knew he was excellent. I had played against Dennis Johnson, and I knew that he was fantastic. I didn’t know how good Larry Bird and Kevin McHale truly were. Larry was the best player that I ever played with. Kevin was the second greatest low-post player that I ever played against, after Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. It was just so much fun. I’m sitting here today, 30-plus years later, and I’ve got this big, giant grin on my face thinking about how fun it was to get up every day, and to go and spend the day with those guys. It was that way with everybody on the team. Danny Ainge—who should be in the Hall of Fame: Scott Wedman, Jerry Sichting, Rick Carlisle, Greg Kite, Sam Vincent, David Thirdkill . . . KC Jones and the assistant coaches, Chris Ford, Jimmy Rodgers, and Ray Melchiorre. It was an incredible experience. It was better than perfect.”

Mutual Admiration Society: Bill Walton and Larry Bird celebrate, while Kevin McHale looks on.

For the first time in his career, Walton doesn’t feel the burden of carrying a team on his shoulders. In Boston, he can simply fit in.

“It was a championship team before I ever got there,” he says. “I was just lucky to be in a Celtics uniform. My job was to remind the guys of what the schedule was [laughs]. KC Jones would put a variety of combinations out there. Sometimes he would have Larry, Kevin, and Chief on the court doing their thing. And then it might be Larry, Kevin, and me…or Robert, Kevin, and me. He also had Scott Wedman, who was a fantastic talent coming off the bench. Everybody could do everything, including think. There were a lot of interchangeable parts.”

In Portland, Walton becomes famous for riding that bike to games. In Boston, he relies on another mode of transportation.

“I hate traffic, and I hate to wait,” he says. “The T was the fastest way to get to the games; I remember riding the Red Line and the Green Line to get to the Boston Garden because the traffic was just so awful. The fans would be rocking the cars, just like they did in the Garden, with chants of ‘Here we go Celtics, here we go!’ And then you’d get there, and the fans were so fired up. They were the best fans in the world. People would buy tickets just to be in the arena, even though they could even see the game. I don’t know how many people actually bought tickets because if you knew anybody, you could get in for free. They had that backdoor on the Causeway Street entrance, where some guy was just standing there waving people through. It was just so fun, it was a dream come true. The world as it could be and as it should be. What could be better than that?”

The most famous Dead Head in the world wastes little time evangelizing his favorite group to his new teammates.

Standing Tall: Bill Walton attends a Grateful Dead show at the Greek Theatre in 1985 – photo courtesy Susana Millman

“When I came to Boston, my love for the Grateful Dead was well-known,” Walton says. “Larry and Kevin came up and asked me if they could go to the show, because they’d never been and didn’t know any of the songs. And my reaction was one of immediate excitement. I was like, ‘Yeah, okay, let’s go!’ And so we put together a road trip, and we all went—well, everybody except for Danny Ainge because his wife wouldn’t let him go with us [laughs]. It was a fantastic time! When the show was over, they looked at me with the Kaleidoscope eyes of somebody who’s just seen something for the very first time. I don’t know that they ever embraced the Grateful Dead. I can’t speak for them. But afterward, they said, ‘Wow! Can we come back tomorrow?’ So we went back again the next night.”

With Walton finally healthy and Bird at the top of his game, the Celtics roll to a 67–15 record, best in the NBA. The players are alike in many ways—consummate teammates, brilliant passers, intense competitors. The friendship that develops is immediate.

Spending time with Larry Bird is like being on a tropical island,” Walton says. “There is so much heat, and so much life, and everything is happening at warp speed. I don’t know if you have ever been to Maui, but you can sit there in a chair and see the plants get bigger because everything is happening at such an extreme level. That’s what life with Larry Bird was like. There was so much fun, and so many things going on. I’m the luckiest guy in the world to have been a part of that.”

The connection with Robert Parish is equally rich.

Dave Cowens, Robert Parish, and Bill Walton

“I love Robert Parish. Away from the spotlight, Robert is very funny. That’s the way that he is. On the bus rides, in the locker room, in the hotels, in the airports . . . he was just so much fun. Imagine the honor that I had when Chief went into the Hall of Fame, and he called me up and said, ‘Bill, would you be my presenter?’ Are you kidding me? I am the luckiest guy on earth. Playing behind Robert Parish, that is akin to following a Brinks truck down a bumpy road and they forgot to close the back door.”

Walton anchors the second unit, and the Celtics roll to the ’86 NBA championship. For a student of the game, following in the footsteps of the great Bill Russell is the ultimate “pinch me” moment.

Bill Russell became my favorite player ever, on and off the court. The way he always carried himself epitomized everything that I wanted to be. The way he stands up for a better world. To see someone like Russell stand up to the nonsense, to the indignities, to the injustices . . . he’s a beacon of hope, he’s a shining star. He’s who I aspire to be, knowing full well that I could only hope to be but a tiny fraction of the towering pillar of humanity that he has always been. Bill Russell is a towering giant in a world of shriveling midgets.

“There is this incredible moment in Bill Russell’s last game,” Walton begins. “It’s Game 7 of the 1969 NBA Finals, and the Celtics are playing the Lakers in Los Angeles. The game’s on national TV, the Celtics are huge underdogs, it’s being played in the Forum. Jack Twyman, who is one of the announcers, goes into the Celtics’ locker room before the game. Russell is sitting there. He’s got this scowl on his face, and he’s ready to go. Sam Jones has already shown him the letter that Jack Kent Cooke wrote to all of the Laker season ticket holders, about how the championship would be celebrated at the end of the game. Russell has also heard about the purple and gold balloons suspended in the rafters and how the Lakers will be releasing them when the final horn sounds. He knows about the champagne chilled in the Lakers’ locker room. Jack Twyman says to Bill Russell on camera, ‘What’s going to happen tonight, Russ?’ Russell just glares at Jack, and he says simply, ‘We’re going to win.’ Jack is taken aback, and he asks how he knows that the Celtics are going to win. Russell looks at him and says, ‘Because we’ve done this before.’ I was so pumped up when I heard him say that. I was sitting there, watching Russell on TV, and I was like, ‘Yeah! Let’s go!’ And we all know what happened. Russell played the entire 48 minutes and walked into the sunset a champion.”

Steer the conversation in any direction, and all roads eventually lead back to the Grateful Dead. Walton has jammed with the Dead, toured with them, and seen more of their concerts than just about anyone. He’s so close to the band that they often stay at his home, rather than a hotel, when visiting San Diego. He even met his wife, Lori, through friends of the band.

“She’s a fan of the Grateful Dead, and she went to UCLA, which were two very important attributes,” he says, laughing.

Walton, who keeps count of his concert tally, certainly doesn’t see himself scaling back anytime soon.

Still standing: Walton attends another Grateful Dead concert, one of 889 shows (and counting) that he’s seen since the ’70s

“I didn’t count the first 12 years that I went to Grateful Dead concerts—nobody ever thought of counting back then, we just went all of the time. It was during the late ’70s or early ’80s that I started to count my concerts. Today the count is 889, but it’s not important how many. It’s important that we were there, that we are there now, and that we hope to be there tomorrow. I used to care where they played and what they played, now the only thing that I care about is that they play at all, and how they play. I want more shows.”

Walton sees endless parallels between basketball and the Grateful Dead and moves seamlessly between his two favorite subjects.

“From the very beginning with the Grateful Dead, I looked up on that stage and shouted from the top of the highest mountain, ‘I am with those guys!’ From the earliest days listening to Chick Hearn, I said the same thing about the Boston Celtics: ‘I’m with those guys!’ I’m with Red Auerbach. I’m with KC Jones. I’m with Bill Russell. I’m with John Havlicek. And then the ’70s came, and the love affair never stopped, because then I’m with Dave Cowens. I’m with Jo Jo White. I’m with Paul Westphal. I’m with Paul Silas. I’m with Don Nelson. And then I’m traded to Boston, and my dream comes true. I’m with Larry, Kevin, Robert, DJ, Danny, Rick, Scotty, Jerry, and all of the guys. I’m with those guys.”

Winners of 15 world championships before he arrives, ‘those guys’ now includes this guy, the oft-injured redhead who resurrects his career in a Boston Celtics uniform.

“I was drawn to those great Celtics teams by the way that they played,” Walton says. “Those great teams in the ’60s were so fast, and the ball never seemed to touch the floor. You had Sam Jones with his patented bank shot, KC Jones with the great defensive steal leading to transition offense. You had Bill Russell blocking a shot or grabbing a rebound to ignite the fast break. You had Tommy Heinsohn with the running hook shot, John Havlicek doing everything imaginable on earth and never getting tired. And then you had Dave Cowens, who was so fabulous in the early ’70s and who was just so fun to watch. And then later you had Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, and DJ doing their thing . . . To be an admirer of that tradition, and then to be a part of it, you couldn’t possibly hope for anything else.”

Unfortunately, Walton’s injury woes return. He plays in a career-high 80 regular season games during the championship run but appears in only 10 during the 1986–87 season. He’s on the bench when Larry Bird makes his famous steal during Game 5 of the Eastern Conference Finals, and he retires shortly after the Celtics fall to the Lakers in the ’87 NBA Finals.

Mission Accomplished: Bill Walton is interviewed following the Celtics’ 1986 NBA Championship

“Being part of a band is the same as being a part of a team,” Walton says. “That spirit of, ‘Yeah, we’re going to get this done,’ or ‘Let’s go, we’ve got a show to put on,’ or ‘We’ve got a game to play.’ It all translates into the same thing: ‘We get to go do this today, and we get to go do it together.’ The teamwork, creativity, improvisation, and imagination that goes into being a great musician also goes into being a great basketball player. Those are the things that I knew I was going to miss when I decided it was time to retire from basketball.”

Walton has long ago accepted his lot in life.

“My story is one of a meteoric rise to the top, and then immediately followed by catastrophic orthopedic health problems. I’m the most injured player ever. I missed more than nine full seasons of my 14-year NBA career. I could never sustain. I’m on Bill Walton 17 right now.

“I wanted to be the best, but my body would not carry me where I needed to go or where I wanted to go. I spent half of my adult life in the hospital, endured 37 operations, and never achieved the ultimate dream of being the best. I’ve learned to appreciate the things that I’ve accomplished, like being a part of two of the greatest basketball teams in the world, the Bruins and the Celtics. It doesn’t get much better than that.”

One thing is clear: Bill Walton 17 is happy to be back.

“When you are old like I am, the driving emotions in your life are pride, loyalty, and gratitude. Pride: The satisfaction with your choices. Loyalty: Do we care, and is this worth it? Gratitude: The appreciation and the respect and the acknowledgment of the sacrifice that has gone for you to create what we have today.”

Walton pauses. His smile releases a row of perfect teeth, thoughts of suicide nowhere to be found.

“I try to learn from the past, dream and hope for a better tomorrow, and live for today. Today is what I can go for, and that sense of going for it is what excites and motivates me. There’s a song by the Grateful Dead, called Saint of Circumstance. Listening to it reminds me that when you have dreams, and then the dreams come true, and then the reality is better than a dream, there’s nothing like that in life. That’s happened a lot in my life. The Boston Celtics are such a big part of who I am, and a big part of the life that I have today.”

Written By: Michael D. McClellan | The staccato gunfire shreds any opponent fool enough to take the challenge, words on top of words, an avalanche of syllables that cuts down even the most accomplished battle rapper. His videos have racked up millions of views and taken on a life of their own, in some cases outpacing uploads by Prince and Madonna. Fiercely independent, he’s chosen to blaze his own trail rather than sign with a label and relinquish the creative freedom that makes him one of hip-hop’s most intriguing artists. Haters who pegged him a one-trick pony were left sorely disappointed, his live performances clearly up to the standard set by his studio work, his maiden tour silencing the critics stupid enough to doubt his inner-showman in the first place.

In a music industry overrun with talented rappers, Anilyst stands out.

“I’ve always gone about my business a little differently than everyone else,” he says without the slightest hesitation. “I’ve never been one to follow the crowd.”

Anilyst is the antithesis of the well-worn hip-hop stereotype, a dude who doesn’t need to drop fuck every third word to make a point. Just don’t lump him in with milquetoast rappers like Will Smith. Bright and articulate, the son of Middle Eastern parents is equal parts Einstein and Eminem, frequently taking his craft into rarefied air, his lyrics easily consumed by the masses yet deceptively complex in their style and structure. Easy, you say? Go ahead, grab a pen and make a fool of yourself. Albert Einstein once rapped that the definition of genius is taking the complex and making it simple. E=mc2, bitches. Yes, there’s real genius in what Anilyst does, a phonetic savant who, to use his own words, raps so fast you’d think a cheetah passed.

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Triple Threat exploded and put Anilyst on the map. The conceptually fresh video – Anilyst in a straitjacket, held captive in a nondescript mental hospital with a scantily clad physician sitting across the table from him – proved the perfect vehicle to build an audience from scratch. While the sight of a sexy doctor stripping down to lace lingerie (hot pink, no less) builds tension and keeps eyeballs glued to the screen, it’s the rapper’s lyrics that trump the cleavage tempting the video’s spaced-out protagonist.

Anilyst – A scene from the Triple Threat video

Anilyst the triple threat. Anilyst the triple threat. Anilyst the triple threat. Reppin’ while I cripple vets…

Six years and 7.8 million views later, Triple Threat continues to gift Anilyst legions of new fans.

“That video really built my name recognition,” he says. “I can’t say that it was an intentional marketing tactic on my part, because I didn’t think about it in those terms at the time, but there are people out there who refer to me as ‘Anilyst the Triple Threat.’ It’s insane how many times it’s been viewed.”

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With hypnotically deep pools for eyes and a perfectly groomed five o’clock shadow, Anilyst looks like anything but the geek he professes to have been growing up. He still reps his hometown of Fresno but he’s operating in Los Angeles now, a bigger stage with a bigger network to grow his brand. His mind never rests and that’s a good thing, because being Anilyst is a 24x7x365 endeavor, his every waking moment compartmentalized into multiple hyper-critical spheres: There’s the creative sphere, out of which pours the lyrics and beats that propel his music; there’s the social media sphere, which keeps him connected to the fans hungry for all things Anilyst; there’s the business and marketing sphere, the place where the merch is birthed and his music is made available for download from a variety of platforms; and there’s the performance sphere, the place where his videos and live performances intersect, the crossroads where faceless YouTube views meet real-world ticket sales. It’s a dizzying grind, akin to a presidential candidate on the campaign trail. That Anilyst does it all himself, and does so with mad skills across all of these spheres, is a testament to this multi-talented artist’s love for the game.

“Being independent means it’s all on me,” he says. “I have to grind all the time, and the output has to be on point. That’s the difference between someone who sits around and talks about wanting it, and someone who actually goes out and gets it. You have to sacrifice. You have to focus on doing what you love and think of nothing else, man. It’s about being in attack mode. Anything less than 100% and you’re going to fail.”

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The fans love Anilyst, and he loves them back. That simple truth is The Great Differentiator, the thing that sets Anilyst apart. Hit him up on social media and he’s going to hit you back. Throw a beat his way and he’s going to listen and provide constructive criticism. It’s all part and parcel of being connected to those who invest their time, energy and money in his multisyllable world.

“Without the fans I’m not in the game,” he says quickly. “I appreciate everyone who listens to my music, downloads a song, or buys a ticket to one of my shows. They have as much skin in the game as I do. It’s on me to deliver.”

You’re LA-born, but moved to Fresno at a young age.

We grew up in a fairly bad area in Northwest Fresno called C-Block. At the time, we were the only Middle Eastern family living on that block. I have two older sisters and an older brother, and we stayed away from trouble for the most part, which was something our parents were pretty adamant about. I was never a fan of school because I didn’t really click with the other kids. I always felt like I was a little different. I know a lot of artists say that they were a little off from the rest growing up, but that was definitely me.


Were you ever bullied at school?

I definitely got tested a lot growing up. I was always a kid who would stand up for himself, so I wouldn’t say that I got bullied because I never really gave anyone that opportunity. I think the fact that I got tested so much growing up made me who I am, and gave me that aggression and fierceness in my music.


What was it like to be Middle Eastern in Fresno at that time?

It was different, man. Fresno in general isn’t the best anyway, and then 9/11 happened and we had to deal with racial profiling and people being racist. People were angry. You had to watch your back, but to this day I still love the city because that’s where I’m from. I have friends there, and I still have some family out there.

Anilyst

You eventually went the home-school route.

I went to a public high school my freshman and sophomore years, but I was constantly getting into trouble with the other kids. It really got bad when I started to battle rap during my sophomore year – I’d win the battle but end up fighting, and sometimes small riots would break out. The last time I got suspended we decided that it would be better for me to pull out of school altogether and go to home studies instead.


Did homeschooling suit you?

Definitely. Nowadays home studies is much more the norm, and there isn’t the same stigma attached to it. Back then if you were home-schooled you were considered a terrible kid, and the other kids would talk about you and give you this really bad rep. I didn’t care what anyone thought. It turned out to be the best thing for me because those years of home-schooling are really what made me Anilyst.  Before home-schooling, I was just this kid who wanted to rap. Those two years were so vital because I spent so much time alone. No friends, no distractions. I’d sit in my room with my computer, downloading all kinds of tracks off Napster – Eminem freestyles, Tupac songs – and that’s how I really started honing my craft.


How did you get started in battle rap?

I was looked at as a nerd during my freshman year of high school, while my friend BK – his real name is Brian King – was one of the really popular kids in school. BK was the only person who knew that I could rap, mostly because I was too embarrassed to tell other people. I would freestyle with him and he would say, “You gotta jump in these battles, man. You’re too good not to battle.” Well, there was another kid at school who was killing people in battles, nobody could beat him. I watched him, and during my sophomore year I became convinced that I could take him down…I just didn’t have the courage to challenge him to a battle. But BK stayed on top of me until I stepped into the ring with him.


Was it a real ring?

No. There wasn’t a stage or a ring or anything, it was a circle of 200-to-300 kids. The battles took place during lunch. It was a fairly aggressive environment – they would push you into the circle and you couldn’t get out.


What do you remember most about that first battle rap?

Back then you were expected to freestyle from the top of your head mostly, but you could also write stuff down, so I prepared a few things to say about what he was wearing that day. Then lunchtime comes. Everyone starts forming the circle. BK is running around trying to find me – I’m so nervous that I’m hiding on the other side of campus – and then someone points me out to him. He literally grabs me and says, “You’re doing this, bro, you’re going to kill this dude.” The next thing I know, Brian is dragging me across campus and pushing me in the circle. People were looking at me like, “This scrawny kid is going to battle?” And that’s when some kid hits the beatbox.

I did my thing – I said what I said to him – and the crowd went insane. It was crazy! I don’t know if you’ve ever been in a fight before, but in a fight you kind of forget what happened because of the adrenaline rush. That was me. I forgot a huge majority of what happened right after I got out of the circle, but everyone was screaming and telling me that I’d killed him. I will never forget that feeling. I was like, “This is who I am.” That fear went away, my confidence grew, and all I wanted to do from then on was battle. But that’s also when all the trouble around campus started to pick up. Everyone was like, “He’s that kid that nobody can beat.” That’s when my life changed, man. There was a lot of anger and jealousy.


Let’s talk rap Influence – for me, it was Eric B. and Rakim’s album Paid in Full, and Tupac’s single Brenda.  What are some the mileposts in your journey into the rap game?

I fell in love with rap by listening to Tupac. I had a friend named Jamar, I think I was in the second or third grade, and he would talk about this rapper named Tupac Shakur. Rap was foreign to me at the time because I come from a Middle Eastern family and all my parents ever played was Arabic music. Occasionally my older sisters would turn on MTV, but I was too young to understand it. Then one day Jamar played Changes, and I was blown away by the way Tupac rhymed and told a story. He was rapping about the war in the streets and the war in the Middle East, so that related to me and made me a fan of rap.

Eminem and 50 Cent were the two artists who most inspired me to rap. The movie 8 Mile had a big influence on me. Maybe it was because I felt that I never got respect as a kid, or because I didn’t feel cool enough, but for whatever reason I could identify with Eminem’s character in that movie. It’s still one of my favorite movies because it inspired me to become a rapper.

About that same time, 50 Cent was starting to pop. I remember sitting in Spanish class and I heard one kid say to another kid, “Hey, have you heard of this rapper called 50 Cent?” And then one of them played the song Wanksta. I remember him putting his headphones on, and the song was so loud that I could hear the beat. Damn, that beat was so dope.  I went straight home and searched for that song online, and I must have played it a hundred times. It just blew me away. As a matter of fact, the first album I ever bought was 50 Cent’s Get Rich or Die Tryin’, and I still think it’s a masterpiece. Those two things – Eminem’s movie and 50 Cent’s album – were what really dragged me into the rap game.

Photo Courtesy: Anilyst

I don’t think people realize how hard it is to rap as fast as you do, and do it intelligibly.

After you’ve been doing it for so many years it becomes second nature, but getting to that point is not easy at all. Like, if the 14-year-old me could hear something that I’ve gone on to do – like Catch Up, for example – he would be like, “I don’t know how the hell you do that. That’s not even possible.” But because I’ve been doing it for so long now, it’s almost become autonomic.


Do you consider it a gift?

Not to sound arrogant or cliché, but it is really easy for me. I feel like anybody can do it, as long as they put the work in, the years of dedication that it takes to hone their craft. With that said, I do feel that I have a natural talent for rap.


You’ve built your shit from the ground up. Most people don’t understand the dedication, sacrifice, and grind involved.

Every aspect of what I do is on my own, and people truly don’t understand how much work that is. They think that I have a company behind me, and a team working with me every step of the way. They’re like, “There’s no way that you can do all of this.” But it’s all on me. It requires a lot of dedication, and you have to put in the time…and I believe that you have to be borderline OCD.


Are you OCD?

I watched Steve Jobs speak once, and he was talking about entrepreneurs who’ve become successful on a large scale. He said that those people have to be borderline crazy, because there is no way a rational person that would go to the lengths needed to achieve that kind of success. The same is true for me. There aren’t a lot of people rational people who would spend the amount of time that I do in the rap game. I am sacrificing and grinding all the time. The average person won’t do it because it’s too hard. There are no shortcuts. You have to put in the work.

Photo Courtesy: Anilyst

You’ve developed your own style – ‘Syllable Sliding.’

Syllable Sliding is extreme multisyllabic rhyming. When I was learning how to rap, I was just rhyming the last syllable…kind of ABC-ish. Like, “I’m driving in a car, I’m going to go far.” I asked myself, “Why doesn’t this sound good? What makes the lyrics by Eminem sound good, or what makes a dope lyricist like Mos Def sound good?” Then I studied their lyrics and realized that they weren’t rhyming just the last syllable, but the syllables before that as well. I was like, “Shit, how do they rhyme two syllables, make it makes sense, and tell a story?” At first it seemed impossible. But I knew that that’s what the elite MCs were doing, so I tried to develop two syllables rhymes. Once I got two syllables down, I tried for three. Now, there are songs where I’ve gone twelve syllables deep, which is almost unheard of.


People don’t realize how hard that is.

They know that it takes talent, that it’s pleasing to the ear when they hear it, and that it makes sense to them sonically, but I think you have to be a rapper to truly appreciate it. It takes somebody that really knows the craft to understand that this multi-syllable game is crazy.


Tell me about your first EP, Syllable Sliding, Vol. 1.

For Syllable Sliding Vol. 1, I posted some songs and a couple of videos on YouTube – Triple Threat and Winners – and started generating a lot of buzz. My buddy started telling me that I had to drop a mix tape, so I finished some more songs and I called the project Syllable Sliding Vol. 1. I put a date on it and released it. It has been a classic, man.


Prince’s video Musicology is closing in on 2 million YouTube views.  His video for the 1991 Number 1 hit Cream is at 4.2 million.  Triple Threat is currently at 7.7 million and rising.  What goes through your mind when you hear that?

That’s fun to think about, and hard to wrap my head around. It’s crazy, man. It’s such a big song. Incorporating my name into the song turned out to be a smart marketing move…Anilyst the Triple Threat is a great lyric because it helped to get my rap name out there. I can’t say it was intentional, but it worked.


How many times a day do you get asked about Triple Threat?

The main question that I get asked is if I slept with the girl in the video [laughs].  She’s just a friend, a great girl. I haven’t spoken to her in quite some time – she got married, which is super cool. I want to put it out there that she’s not like that in real life, that her performance in the video is just the character we created. She is a great, great girl. But yeah, I get asked a lot about Triple Threat, and it’s kind of become a cult classic now. It actually has its own following, which is crazy.


Tell me about your No Mercy video.

No Mercy was shot by Austin Ahlborg, the same guy who did Triple Threat. He’s a really great guy, a genius at what he does, super brilliant. He came out to Fresno for a couple of days and I took him around the city scouting for locations. We shot the majority of the video in Fresno, but we also went out to Palmdale, which is a desert area in California.

That video was intense – we got pulled over by a couple of cops, and we almost got shut down a couple of times. We didn’t have a big budget, so the idea was to keep it simple and kind of artsy. We also didn’t have permits, so we had to shoot it guerrilla style…we’d open up the camera if the cops weren’t around and shoot. If a cop showed up we’d go somewhere else. We did that last scene in Palmdale. The camera was mounted on the van, and I’m chasing the camera on foot until I cut to the left. Then I go to the BMW on the side of the road, which was my real car at the time, jump in and bust a U-turn, and then chase the van. The scene called for me to get as close to the van as possible, and if you watch the video closely it looks like I almost hit the van…which nearly happened, because I was about five inches away. It was stunt move for sure, but the end result turned out really great, man.


Syllable Sliding Volume 2 is great from top to bottom – and loaded with songs!

I appreciate that, man. Most major labels will put out one or two singles and then drop the album. Being independent, my approach has always been more aggressive. I usually write a song, record it, and then put it out on YouTube and get the feedback – and then repeat that process several times to get the buzz going. Then, after I have people talking, I drop the album and maybe surprise everyone with 10 or 11 brand new songs. That’s what happened with Syllable Sliding Volume 2.

Syllable Sliding Volume 2 and Syllable Sliding Vol. 1

How did the song 111 come about?

With Syllable Sliding Volume 2, I’d just moved from Fresno to Los Angeles, and that was my first apartment number. 111 is probably one of my favorite songs because, although it takes me back to a period in my life that wasn’t so great, it was a time where I felt like I really found myself as both an artist and a person. I’d just gone through a bad breakup. I was in L.A. by myself. I responded by spending a lot of time in the studio. I grew spiritually and mentally during that period.


Give me the genesis of Syllable Sliding Volume 2.

I was in this mode of writing and recording, writing and recording…and then I made the mistake of telling my fans that the release date for the album was going to be Halloween Day, 2013. I say mistake because it was already September, and there was barely a month left before the Halloween deadline – and I only had eight songs done.  So in this month span I’ve got to crank out another twelve or thirteen really good songs.  Fortunately I work well under pressure, so I’m like, “Okay, let’s do this.” And for the next month I’m in a zone – my phone was off, no social life whatsoever, just me writing and recording.


Did you ever doubt that you’d make the deadline?

No, but it was an extremely intense period in my life. Mind you, I record and edit the music myself, I do the majority of the mixing and mastering, and nobody is helping me behind the keyboard. It’s all me. It was intense man. Actually, that’s when I fell in love with coffee. I stayed up so late that I started drinking a lot of Turkish and American coffee. That’s how Syllable Sliding Volume 2 came to be.


What about Syllable Sliding 3?

Syllable Sliding 3 was basically the same formula; I put a release date on it before it was done, and then I cranked it out.

Photo Courtesy: Anilyst

You’ve set yourself apart in the way that you connect with your fans.

That’s because I’ve had to work so hard to get fans. I think I appreciate them so much because I know what it was like to not have them. I never take them for granted, man. I look around, and it feels like a majority of the really successful artists out there don’t truly appreciate their fans. In a lot of cases, I think it’s because they got lucky along the way or they got famous really fast and didn’t have to work for it. Either way, it’s like they don’t know the value of having fans. I’m different because there were so many years where no one knew who I was. People weren’t listening to Anilyst. Hell, I was invisible. It left me wondering if I was going to make it, or if I’d be able to make a living as a rapper. It was a very depressing time, because there were so many moments when I doubted whether my break was ever going to come. Because of that, I never take my fans for granted.


Who inspired you to overcome the doubt?

I credit my mom, because she was always pushing me, and she has always been the battery in my back. There were times when I was depressed and I considered giving up, and if it wasn’t for her faith in me, I might have walked away from the rap game. I give her mad credit for that, especially with her being a Middle Eastern woman. Being from Palestine, that wasn’t easy for her. With the culture that we come from, it’s expected that you become an engineer or a doctor…those are considered successful professions. When I told her I wanted to become a rapper, she never blinked and she never questioned it. She simply said, “If this is what you want to do, just don’t give up. And if you’re going to pursue it, be the best. Do those things and you’ve got my support.”


There is a three year gap between Syllable Sliding 3 and Lystening.

That period felt like a new beginning for me because I was growing as an artist. Half of my fans were wanting me to change it up and try something different, and the other half was like, “Don’t change the formula, we want you to do what you do.” It was then that I realized that you can never satisfy everyone. I also stepped back and assessed where I was as an artist. On the way up I’d put out so much music in such a short span of time, but I don’t think I focused enough on the other aspects of being an independent artist. I decided to market myself more and build my fan base instead of just putting out more music. I started posting freestyle rap videos, growing social media, things like that. And it worked. I’d get 4 million views on this video, or 3 million views on that video, and I started to gain a little traction. When I felt like the buzz was at its peak, I decided to drop another album.


Tell me about your tour.

The crazy thing about touring is that you forget what city you’re in because you’re working on zero sleep. Everything is also happening so fast that there’s no time to think. I learned that some markets are better than others. For example, if we went to Kansas City and sold out, then Kansas City would be on my list for the next tour. Or if we played in Los Angeles and didn’t do well, then we might hold off, work on building up that fan base, and then go back at some point later. In reality, Los Angeles probably had the best turnout on the entire tour. The fans in L.A. are incredible.

Photo Courtesy of Anilyst

What else did you learn about being on the road?

I didn’t know to expect on my first tour, but it went way better than I expected. The main thing is that it showed me that the fans are real. I’d open up YouTube and see 7 million views on Triple Threat, and that’s amazing, but it’s just a number. Performing live made it real.  People were insane. There were fans holding up drawings of me, fans crying, fans chanting my name. There was a girl at one show who pulled out a $100 bill and asked me to autograph it.

I got noticed a lot in public before the tour – I’d go to the mall or the gas station and get noticed, lots of places – but when you step on stage and all of the people in the room are there to see you…they know your lyrics, they’re rapping along with you…it’s surreal. I almost messed up a couple of times because I was so flabbergasted [laughs].


When I interviewed Ne-Yo, we talked about the unfair criticism he’s received for being known more for his studio work than his live performances.

I can relate to that. Because of the way I’ve had to grow my brand as an artist, I’ve made the conscious decision to focus on putting out great music, and then supporting that music with the videos, etc. via social media. It wasn’t that I couldn’t perform live, it was a matter of priorities at the time. With that said, I developed a stigma because people thought that I was just a “studio rapper.” Trust me, I heard the talk. People from Fresno would always say, “Oh, he’s a famous online rapper, but he can’t perform live,” but in my head I’m thinking, “These people have no idea.” I started out battling, so my roots are in performing live. I knew what I could bring to the stage. After that tour, I never heard those rumors again. If you’ve been to one of my shows, you quickly learn that my live performance game is actually better than my pre-recorded stuff.


You went on tour before LYSTening dropped.

The conventional way to promote an album is to drop it and then go on tour, but there have been other artists who have done it the opposite way. Tech N9ne is great example. But there is no blueprint for how to do it anymore, so I didn’t want to wait until I dropped the album. I had the opportunity to do the tour, so I did the tour, and then dropped the album three months later.


Who produces your beats?

I use different talent. I have a lot of fans who are producers that hit me up with beats, and the majority of them are really talented. Funny thing is, a lot of them are international. That’s not to discredit any producers from America, because the United States is still the music Mecca of the world, but there is real talent in places like Europe and Australia. Triple Threat was produced by an Australian guy, for example, and 111 was with a guy from Germany. The majority of my latest album was produced by talent from Germany, although there are some New York cats and California talent on it as well. Bottom line, I never just stick to one producer because I don’t want my beats to have a repetitive feel.


Take me inside your creative process.

I can work in a room with producers, and I’ve done that before, but my preference is to be totally alone. I like the darkness. I like to turn the lights off, so that it’s just me and the computer screen and the beat blaring. I’m also big on meditation and prayer, and the only thing that comes close to the feeling that I get when I’m meditating is the euphoria that comes from writing.

I don’t handwrite my lyrics anymore – I used to write everything down on paper – now I use my laptop because it’s cleaner, faster, and way more efficient. Writing is less predictable than recording. There are times when you can sit there for an hour and come out with an amazing song, whereas other times it could take a week. Once everything is fully written and the structure of the song has been built, then the actual recording process doesn’t take long. That’s because I record it myself and don’t have to rely on an engineer. Once the recording is locked in, the mixing and mastering won’t take more than a couple of days.

Anilyst – Catch Up video

Are you a perfectionist?

I’m over the top, man [laughs]. I’ll work on a song and there will be one bar left, and I’m trying to find the right word. I might let a producer hear it, and the response might be, “It’s perfect, bro. Just put it out.” I can’t. I’ve got to fix that last word, and I’ll sit on that one word until I figure it out. I call myself Anilyst because I can over-analyze every tiny word and phrase. I’ve clashed with so many producers over the years. They will say, “This guy, he’s too nitpicky.” But that’s just me. I’ve tried to do it the other way and let that word go, but I just can’t do it. It has to be right.


Whose equipment do you use?

When I’m at my place, I use some speakers with a mixing board to get a draft mix down. Once I get it the way I want, I’ll take it to a studio and mix it professionally.


Do you have better access equipment in Los Angeles?

The driver behind moving to L.A. was opportunity, not technology. In Los Angeles, there are so many more people to connect with. So it wasn’t necessarily because of the studios. Today you can have great studios pretty much anywhere, and walk away with products that have amazing sound quality. I had a great studio out in Fresno. I’ve heard music that has been recorded in million-dollar studios and the sound quality is terrible, and I’ve listened to artists who’ve recorded in a $500 studio and the sound quality is incredible.


What’s the L.A. scene like?

I actually reside in the San Bernardino area, which is about an hour from Los Angeles. I moved outside of L.A. because I realized that, with the power of the Internet, you don’t necessarily need to be living in Los Angeles these days. Living 45 minutes to an hour away helps avoid the traffic, making it easier to move around a little faster during everyday life. And then, when I need to network in L.A., I can get there in about an hour.

LYSTening and Syllable Sliding 3

Let’s talk about LYSTening.

It was a similar approach to Syllable Sliding 3, where I dropped a few songs leading up to the release. But instead of just dropping songs, I also dropped a lot of freestyles…basically me grabbing the phone in the car and rapping. I called the series Bars in the Car. I’d post them to YouTube and people would sound off. They would let me know which songs I should make into a full song. So I took specific songs people thought were dope, finished them, and that collection became the album.


That’s a great way to include your fans in the finished product.

People who took notice were ecstatic. It was a smart marketing tactic because I’d already given them samples along the way. When the hype reached a critical mass I dropped an album with them 20-plus songs. Most artists these days drop ten songs if you’re lucky, but my fans know that I’m always coming with a lot more.


You’re really big on social media.

I feel like I was ahead of the game with that, especially when I was back in Fresno. There were a lot of rappers who would talk to me about performing, getting shows in clubs, traditional avenues to get my name out. I would tell them that shows are always going to be necessary, but an effective online presence is way more powerful than any show. A hundred people might come out and see you live, and that’s great, but if you get 200 views, that’s 200 people who got to see you and they are not surrounded by people who are drunk in the club, getting into fights, etc. And they aren’t dealing with a lot of loud stuff going on around them, or checking out the girls in the audience. With a view on social media, they might share it with a friend, who shares it with a friend. It’s a much more powerful tool. Back then I just couldn’t get other rappers to comprehend that.

Anilyst

What’s next for Anilyst?

More singles and more videos, bro. I also have some collaborations in the works. A few of those I’m going to keep under wraps for the time being, but one of them is with a really talented up-and-comer who’s built a pretty big following for himself. His name is Massive Man. He put out a couple of videos on YouTube that went viral, and then we connected. So yeah, I’ve got some dope collaborations coming. I’ll also be back on the road very soon with a new tour.


Final Question – If you had one piece of advice for other aspiring artists, rap or otherwise, what would that be?

Two things: To believe, and to have faith. I feel that there is real power in believing in yourself, and in believing that there’s is something outside of yourself that has your back. There are going to be a lot of people along the way who are going to try to discredit you, to tear you down, to tell you that you can’t succeed, to tell you to quit because it’s too hard. As long as you believe in yourself and hold true to your faith, then there is nothing that can stop you.


Written By: Michael D. McClellan | Back in 1989, when Biz Markie belted out the line “Ohhhhh baaabbbbbyyyy youuuuu!…got what I neeeeeeed,” the former Juice Crew funnyman crossed over, barging into the mainstream like that crazy uncle who shows up unexpectedly at the family reunion, his gap-toothed smile instantly relatable even if the gold chains, four-finger rings and cocked brim baseball caps spoke to a hip-hop culture most at the time didn’t understand.  The clowning – we turned on MTV, and there was Biz singing the chorus of Just a Friend dressed as Mozart in 18th-century clothing – made it easy to let our guard down and let him in, the same way millions of kids would do when he uncorked “Biz’s Beat of the Day” on the Nick Jr. hit show, Yo Gabba Gabba!, a generation later. Biz was one of us – a little on the hefty side, happy-go-lucky, the perfect goofball to skateboard with on a lazy Saturday afternoon.

For Biz, the commercial and mainstream success of Just a Friend introduced the world to an artist whose recording career had been steadily building since the mid-‘80s. His 1988 debut album, Goin’ Off, featured odes about going to the mall, dances that seemed impossible, and the joys of picking boogers. He was part of the hip-hop collective Juice Crew, assembled by producer Marley Marl (on Ty Williams’ Cold Chillin’ label), and anchored by the group’s core that included the larger-than-life spectacle that was Big Daddy Kane, the slippery tongued Masta Ace, and the profanely prickly Roxanne Shante. And his hit, Vapors, stormed Yo! MTV Raps to become one of the show’s most requested songs.

Biz Markie scored big with his one-hit wonder, Just a Friend. The single reached #9 on the Billboard charts in 1989.

A year later came the release of his second album, The Biz Never Sleeps. The cover comically portrays the rapper as a mad scientist mixing chemicals as if he’s in search of the perfect formula. With the possible exception of Will Smith, Biz Markie’s comedic persona carved out unique niche in the late-‘80s rap scene, just in time for Just a Friend to take off. The song peaked at #9 on the Billboard charts, becoming a one-hit wonder with an off-key chorus that everyone loved to sing, the accompanying video eventually earning Biz the nickname “The Clown Prince of Hip-Hop.” The album proved almost as successful as the single, peaking at #66 on the Billboard 200 and #9 on the Top R&B/Hip-Hop Albums, respectively, on its way to certified gold status. For the Harlem-born funnyman, life at the end of the ‘80s was good indeed. Trouble, it turns out, was just around the corner.

~  ~  ~

When Biz Markie’s third album, I Need a Haircut, dropped on August 27, 1991, the music industry was on a legal collision course over copyright infringement, with his single Alone Again soon at its epicenter. Musically, Alone Again samples several bars of the familiar piano riff from Gilbert O’Sullivan’s 1972 hit, Alone Again (Naturally), and Biz sings part of O’Sullivan’s hook for his own chorus. On the surface, Alone Again seemed to follow a very similar template to Just a Friend, which also riffed off a piano loop and song hook borrowed from singer-songwriter Freddie Scott. Behind the scenes though, a storm began to brew.

“Samples,” Markie says with a laugh. “It was all about the samples.”

When sampling technology and practices became hip-hop’s musical blueprint in the late 1980s, the business and legal rules were a gray area. Since the techniques created digital copies of source material, copyright holders could argue that unauthorized sampling violated their intellectual property. Those doing the sampling could argue they were repurposing fragments of recorded music to create something entirely new. Up until 1991, disputes around whose argument carried more weight tended to be settled outside of court.

This is where Biz comes back in.

In 1991, O’Sullivan sued Markie over the Alone Again sample. The case came hot on the heels of a $1.7 million settlement between members of ‘60s rock group The Turtles and the rap group De La Soul, stemming from a few seconds of a Turtles’ song sampled by De La. With the O’Sullivan/Markie case, one complication was that Markie and Warner Bros. initially tried to clear the sample through O’Sullivan, but when O’Sullivan declined to do so, the label released the song anyway. This set up the eventual legal showdown which, unlike the previous cases, didn’t get settled out-of-court but instead ended up being decided by judge Kevin Duffy in a far-reaching decision for future sampling practices.

The landmark case filed by Gilbert O’Sullivan against Biz Markie forever changed the music sampling landscape

Duffy found Biz guilty of infringing on O’Sullivan’s copyright, ordered the rapper to pay $250,000 in damages, barred Warner Bros. from continuing to sell either the single or album and, most astoundingly, referred the matter to criminal court on the grounds that Markie was liable for theft. That Markie was never charged is only the footnote in the bigger story. Duffy’s decision permanently altered the landscape for sampling, not so much curtailing it – sampling is still rampant today – but changing the creative and business practices around it.

For Biz, his response to all this drama came two years later with All Samples Cleared!, a tongue-in-cheek swipe at the historic legal hot water he’d just navigated. The cover art finds Markie playing both judge and defendant, restaging the Duffy courtroom with a smirk. On the LP version of the album, the samples are prominently, properly included on the back cover liner notes. There are no sideways shots at either O’Sullivan or Duffy on the tracks, no “fuck you” lyrics aimed at either man. But then again, going hardcore wouldn’t have been the Biz Markie way.

“Had to keep it real,” he says of making his point with the cover art. “My way of laughing at the whole legal brouhaha and then moving on down the road.”

~  ~  ~

The Biz has stayed plenty busy in the intervening years since. There were television appearances on In Living Color and a 1996 freestyle rap commercial on MTV2. Tight with the Beastie Boys, Biz also made guest appearances on Check Your Head (1992), Ill Communication (1994), Hello Nasty (1998), and their four-star anthology The Sounds of Science (1999).

“We had a great relationship,” he says of the influential Rock and Roll Hall of Fame hip-hop group. “If they called me to do something, I was down. We never planned stuff out. We would just hang out and if stuff happened, it happened.”

Tight: Biz Markie and the legendary Beastie Boys, together ’til the end

In 1996, Markie appeared on the Red Hot Organization’s compilation CD, America is Dying Slowly, alongside Wu-Tang Clan, Coolio, and Fat Joe, among others. The CD, meant to raise awareness of the AIDS epidemic among African-American men, was heralded as a masterpiece by The Source magazine.

In 1997, Markie appeared on the Rolling Stones’ song Anybody Seen My Baby? on their album Bridges to Babylon. In 2002, Markie appeared in Men in Black II, with Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones, playing an alien parody of himself, whose native language sounded exactly like beatboxing. A year later he released his fifth studio album, Weekend Warrior, with tracks featuring P. Diddy and DJ Jazzy Jeff.  In 2004, his song Vapors appeared on the soundtrack of Rockstar’s popular video game Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. In 2005, Biz detoured from his recording duties to appear on the first season of the television show Celebrity Fit Club, losing more weight than anybody else in the competition.

Since then, he’s had the beatboxing segment on Yo Gabba Gabba!, opened for Chris Rock’s No Apologies tour, deejay-ed all over the world, and continued to appear on a stream of television programming, including Spongebob Squarepants, Empire, and Black-ish.

His legal troubles long since forgotten, it turns out that it’s Biz Markie who has had the last laugh.

Who inspired you?

 My father is one of my musical influences. He played saxophone with Johnny Coltrane. My first exposure to hip-hop was listening to groups like the Cold Crush Brothers, Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, and the ‘L’ Brothers.  The ‘L’ Brothers was the first cassette that I ever owned.


When did you know you wanted to make music for a living?

I knew that I wanted to do music since eighth grade. As soon as I heard that ‘L’ Brothers cassette I knew that that’s what I wanted to do. I’ve got brothers and sisters who are doctors and lawyers and cops, but I didn’t want to do that.


What was your family’s reaction?

I got put out the house! My mom put me out the house because I chose this path, and she told me not to don’t come back until I was a success. I would never do it any differently. Hip-hop or die. I can’t really think about anything else. I’m self-made, I didn’t follow anybody, and I did it myself. My way. My rap. That’s why I always thank the fans, because the fans are the ones that said, “Yo! We like you this way!  We don’t like you like that one. You’re not like a Rakim or a KRS-1. Be yourself, bring that comedic side out!”


How did you get into music?

I got my start by beat boxing when I was in my teenage years.  I put on a show…I would dance, rap, do everything to keep it popping.  I learned a lot from Marley Marl as far as how the studio works. I just watched everybody and tried to do the opposite of what a lot of people were doing. I learned from the whole industry. I learned from teaching myself.

I learned the most about hip-hop from the streets of New York. I still follow the rap scene because I’m a DJ, and I’ve been doing this for 27 years.  I DJ all over the world. I’ve got a tour going on right now called “Decades Collide – ‘80s versus ‘90s.”  It’s a battle between two local bands from wherever I go. They get onstage and perform, then I get on, then they get on one last time, and I close it out. It’s a Live Nation tour. It’s an adrenaline shot!


Fans love your comedic side. Do you have a favorite comedian?

Before he passed away, one of my biggest influences was Benny Hill.  I met him when I went to London. He said, “Yo, you’re funny like I am!”  And I was like, “Yo, yes I am!”


How did your comedic persona come about?

My pops played every instrument, but mostly the saxophone. For me, hip-hop was different. In hip-hop, you could be whatever you wanted to be. If you know me, you know that my style is different from anybody else’s style. That’s how I could fit into so many other different groups. Whether I’m rocking with the Beastie Boys, or Juice Crew, I fit everywhere because my joint was happy. Being comedic comes natural. Somebody could be the straight man, more serious, and I’m coming across with a positive vibe, so my stuff was different. You saw Two and a Half Men right? Charlie is the funny man, and Allen is the straight man. Or The Odd Couple? Felix is the straight man, and Oscar is the funny man. I’m the funny man, I’m more kid oriented.


Speaking of kids, how did you get involved with Yo Gabba Gabba!?

Christian [Jacobs] and Scott [Schultz] were the creators and directors of the show. They were friends of mine. They wanted me to do “Dancey Dance” but my back was hurtin’ and I didn’t feel like doing it, so I made up “Biz’s Beat of the Day” on the spot. That was in the pilot, and the response was overwhelming. The rest is history.

LOS ANGELES, CA – NOVEMBER 26: Biz Markie (L) and Jamie Foxx (C) pose with members of the cast of Yo Gabba Gabba at Yo Gabba Gabba Live! – Los Angeles, CA at Nokia Theatre L.A. Live on November 26, 2011 in Los Angeles, California. (Photo by Jerod Harris/WireImage)

What’s your favorite thing about working with kids?

Just the pure excitement, and the fact that they aren’t self-conscious. They’re not doing stuff ‘cause it’s cool, they’re just doing something ‘cause they like it. That’s what I like about kids.


Let’s switch gears. Is it true you that you met the legendary Big Daddy Kane at a battle?

Yeah, I met Kane in Brooklyn and we rapped against each other. I heard about him around the ‘hood, so I wanted to take him down. I put out the challenge, and he finally came looking for me.


Who won?

Yo, I did [laughs]. He didn’t expect me to come at him with funny shit. Kane’s style was hard and serious, but it didn’t work against my style of rap. So we got down after we met and battled – back then I used to get into all kinds of parties and stuff, so he eventually rolled with me. We’re still tight to this day.


You and Big Daddy Kane joined the hip-hop collective Juice Crew.

There will never be another Juice Crew. Ever. But I’d say that the closest thing to Juice Crew would have to be Wu-Tang. I mean, like us, they had different rhyme styles, personalities and they all rhymed about different things.

Marley Marl, Biz Markie & The Juice Crew

Let’s talk about your albums. Tell me about Goin’ Off.

Goin’ Off – This one was my first, so it’s the one that means the most. I was just happy to make an album.


One of the most success songs on the album is Vapors. What’s it about?

Vapors is like, you get a whiff of my success. Before I was successful, you ain’t paid me the time of day. Soon as I got hot, you get a whiff of my success. So you get the vapors.


Your next album was The Biz Never Sleeps.

I had something to prove with my second album. This is the one that had the song Just a Friend on it.


Just a Friend was a monster hit!

Nobody liked that record. People thought it was whack. Even my peers were telling me not to do it, that it was garbage, but they didn’t hear what I heard. I’m like, “Okay, I hear you, but I still believe in it.” Even my record company dissed it, but all of a sudden it popped. It was a different story then. They looked at me, like, “Yeah!” All of a sudden they believed in it, but I knew that I was the only one there from the beginning. That’s why I do things my way, and not anybody else’s way. You’ve got to believe in yourself.


How’d your life change when Just A Friend blew up?

Not much changed. I just became really, really popular overnight and got more money. But otherwise I was the same and not much changed. I’m always the same dude no matter what.


Is it true that you actually weren’t going to sing the hook on Just A Friend?

Yeah, I was tryin’ to get my man (Juice Crew singer TJ) Swan but he said he was doing his album. Then I tried to get Al B Sure, and I tried to get Keith Sweat. They were both too busy doing their own stuff, so I said I’ll do it. The rest is history!


Tell me about I Need a Haircut.

That’s the album that I got sued over [laughs].

In 1993, Biz followed the drama created by the Alone Again (Naturally) sampling court case with All Samples Cleared!, a tongue-in-cheek (and litigation-free) album release

Where were you when you found out about the whole court case over your sample usage?

I was driving in my car and they told me about it. Good thing is, I never even had to go to court! It was the record company’s thing.


Were you concerned that it might hurt your career?

No. I actually didn’t think it affected things much. I felt real talented then, and now too, so I would’ve just jumped into something else. I’m a survivor. Whatever I do, I’ll always provide and survive.


The case affected hip-hop as a whole. Did you think it would be that monumental?

I didn’t know then that it’d be that important. I just thought it was another court case. Sorta like if you got pulled over and got a traffic ticket or something [laughs]. I don’t even really think about it. I know it was important, but I have to only think about the future. I did that during the case and I still do that now.


You’ve released five albums, four of them on Cold Chillin’ Records.  What was your main contribution to establishing Cold Chillin’?

Besides me being me, I was like a talent finder. I like to believe in people, so I put Kane on. I was always a team player and that’s probably my main contribution to Cold Chillin’.


Let’s talk basketball for a moment.  You’ve performed at halftime of several NBA games.

I was born in Harlem. I grew up in Colonial Projects, right across the street from Rucker Park. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of the Rucker before, but when I was young I got a chance to see dudes like Dr. J., Earl ‘The Goat’ Manigault, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, so the NBA was always in my blood.

Rapper Biz Markie performs during Game Two of the Eastern Conference Semifinals of the 2019

Favorite NBA team?

I followed the Knicks growing up, but Kareem was from around my projects, so that’s how I became a Lakers fan. The Lakers-Celtics in the ‘80s was a rivalry! That was my era! Larry Bird was the thorn in the Lakers’ side. The whole Bird-Magic thing turned out to be one of the greatest rivalries of all time, because they could both do everything. And that whole rivalry started in college, you know what I mean? Michigan State. Indiana State. Both of those guys were incredible.


You’re a very successful DJ. Any favorite stories jump out?

I was on tour with Will Smith – I took Jazzy Jeff’s spot for a little while – and we were DJin’ in London. The Queen and other royals was in the audience and they were dancin’ off disco. Another time I did an Oscar party – Seinfeld, Kramer, and a whole bunch of them guys was there at the Grammy party. Wild times, bro!


Will Smith is another rapper with a comedic side.

Yeah, me and Will came out kinda at the same time. It’s just that Will did his way of rap and I did my way of rap. I was experimenting with rhyme styles at the time, and my subjects were different.


Your rendition of Elton John’s classic Benny and the Jets was recorded with the Beastie Boys. Tell me about that.

The way that came is me and the Beastie Boys and the Boo-Yaa T.R.I.B.E. was all playing basketball at the Beastie Boys studio. After we got done playing, one of their boys, [Money] Mark, got on the piano and they just started playing rock songs. And I was singing every rock song, songs like Jeremiah was a Bullfrog, and they were buggin’ out. When they broke down Bennie and the Jets, and I just sang it.


You appeared on the TV show Celebrity Fit Club and set the record with a 140 pound weight loss. How was the experience of being on a reality show?

It was weird! But only because I didn’t know any of the other celebrities on there. We were a bunch of strangers, really. I mean, I had seen them all on TV before. But I had to get to know them. We were honestly like a big family once we got to know each other.

Biz Markie’s friends Will Smith and Magic Johnson bet he couldn’t lose the weight. Thanks to Celebrity Fit Club, he dropped 140 pounds in his fight against Type 2 diabetes. Now, he says, he has to keep it off.

You are connected to an eclectic group of acts, including The Flaming Lips.

Yeah, Flaming Lips is my boys. They’re my peoples. We did two tracks. Wayne [Coyne] is super-duper creative and he’s just a fun guy.


When you look back on your career, do you think you were a highly influential character?

Yeah. I think the way I did things were influential ‘cause it’s still reflected in people today. You know, the way people rap and have their pants sagging, whatever. Many little things man. Maybe I didn’t invent these things, but I popularized it in many ways. I popularized a lot of things.


How do you see your place in pop culture?

I don’t look at myself as just part of hip-hop. I look at myself as being sorta important at different times. I was always popular at school and that sorta carried over to my career. When I make a record, I don’t just make it for one purpose, I do it for many different reasons. I don’t think I’ll be remembered for just one thing, ya know?


If you had one piece of life advice for others, what would that be?

Be yourself.  Find yourself by yourself.  When you look back, you don’t want to regret copying someone, and not being authentic.  Stay true to yourself.  That’s why I always do my stuff different. I want to be remembered for me.


Written By: Michael D. McClellan | Colin Chilvers knows a thing or two about special effects. Like the classic E.F. Hutton advertising campaign from the early ‘80s, when Chilvers speaks, people listen, and for good reason: The English-born film director won a Special Achievement Academy Award in Visual Effects for his work on the 1978 blockbuster Superman, helped visualize Michael Jackson’s gravity-defying lean in the Smooth Criminal video, and has served as the special effects coordinator for films such as Marvel’s X-Men, Harrison Ford’s K-19: The Widowmaker, and Vin Diesel’s The Pacifier.  Not that Chilvers brings a boatload of hubris with him to the interview. Far from it. While the Oscar statue is usually in tow, it’s more for the audience’s enjoyment than the man who helped Christopher Reeve fly.  Chilvers, it turns out, is about as chill and as humble as they come.

“When I broke into the business, working in special effects didn’t carry the same weight that it carries today,” Chilvers says with a chuckle. “You worked your 40 hours, and you went home at a decent hour.  It was a regular job in the truest sense of the word.”

Chilvers, who got his start in the late ‘60s, worked several movies as a special effects assistant before given the chance to supervise Inspector Clouseau, starring Academy Award-winner Alin Arkin. It was all the break Chilvers needed, launching him on a nearly 50-year odyssey through some of Hollywood’s biggest blockbusters and adored cult classics.

“The buildup for Superman was tremendous,” he says.  “There was a great anticipation for this film, and it was a proud moment when it was released to the world.  And who would have thought that a little film like The Rocky Horror Picture Show would still be going strong today?”


Christopher Reeve as Superman during production on Superman. Creative Supervisor and Director of Special Effects Colin Chilvers is at the far right. (Image courtesy of Colin Chilvers)

Born in London, Chilvers got his first real taste of the movie business during the filming of 2001: A Space Odyssey.  It was here that he scored his first job, only to be fired days later because the production designer had promised the position to a relative. Nepotism, as it turns out, knows no bounds.

“I learned quickly that it pays to know someone,” Chilvers says with a chuckle.

Despite getting canned, Chilvers soon found himself working special effects on The Battle of Britain, which in turn led to a number of other credits. And then came Clouseau. There was no looking back.

“It reached the point where I knew I could do something I loved for a living,” he says.  “The success of Inspector Clouseau opened a lot of doors, and made getting other special effects jobs much easier.”

Those doors included a string of 1970s cult hits, including Tommy, Lisztomania, Rocky Horror and 200 Motels – all while rubbing shoulders with geniuses like Stanley Kubrick, or working with controversial filmmakers like the notorious Ken Russell.  Through it all, Chilvers continued to build his resume and expand his network, ultimately landing the special effects job on Superman – and the challenge of a lifetime:  Making Superman fly.

“It was a different era,” says Chilvers. “You have to remember, the industry was decades away from the special effects that we have today. There were no computers, no CGI, no digital effects. Everything we did back then, we had to improvise. And the whole world was watching. Everyone wanted to go into the theatre and believe that Superman was really flying. We had to improvise. There were a lot of tricks.  It was quite a challenge, but the result was something to be proud of.”

Winning the Oscar for Superman led to more success in the 1980s – Superman II, Condorman, Superman III – but it was a slew of toy commercials, such as promotions for Spidey Alive and Starship Troopers, that brought Chilvers together with one of the greatest entertainers in the world.

“During the 1980s, there wasn’t a bigger act than Michael Jackson,” Chilvers says quickly. “Thriller had become the best-selling album of all time, and Michael had performed his iconic moonwalk on live TV.  And then, after touring, he went to work on Bad. I was in the right place at the right time. It really helped that Michael and I hit it off immediately. I enjoyed working with him.”

Colin Chilvers and Michael Jackson on the set of Smooth Criminal (image courtesy of Colin Chilvers)

With the King of Pop dancing and Chilvers directing, the duo created Smooth Criminal, one of Jackson’s most impressive works.  The video, central to Jackson’s Moonwalker film, is best known for that gravity-defying lean during the ending dance sequence.  Everyone wanted to know the same thing:  How did Michael do it?

The secret, it turns out, was the genius of Colin Chilvers.

“Piano wire gets all the credit,” he says with a laugh. “It was the staple of many special effects during the ‘70s, and it worked perfectly in the Smooth Criminal video. Sometimes the best tricks aren’t the newest.  Sometimes you rely on the tried and true.”

Chilvers would continue to work through the ‘90s and on into the new millennium, eventually helping four of his nephews – Chris, Ian, Paul, and Neil Corbould – launch special effects careers of their own.  The foursome have worked an impressive list of Oscar-winning movies, including Gladiator, Saving Private Ryan, Batman Begins, Star Wars: The Force Awakens, and Gravity.

“My nephews have become very successful, and I’m very proud them,” he says with a smile. “To see them succeed in a new age of special effects, to watch them work on some great movies and win Oscars of their own…those things mean more than winning the Academy Award.”

How did you break into the movie business?

It was the classic Catch-22, because I was told that you had to be in the union to get a job, and that you had to have a job to get into the union.  I finally cracked that one when I got a job as a trainee animation director with a with a company in Borehamwood, England.  At the time, the office was right next to the MGM Studios’ England headquarters, which happened to be where they were making 2001: A Space Odyssey.


How did being part of the union help?

Whenever a new movie was going to be made there, the union would release a new list detailing the available jobs. On this particular occasion, there was a job that came up on 2001.  I had no idea what this movie was about, who was directing it, but that didn’t matter.  It was a job in the movies, and I wanted to get into the business. I applied and was interviewed by the producer, and when the interview was over he said, “You got the job. You start on Monday.”  It was a very exciting time for me, because I’d finally broken into the movie business, and when Monday rolled around I started my career as a junior in the art department.


From humble beginnings to Oscar winner; for Colin Chilvers, it has been quite a ride
(image courtesy of Colin Chilvers)

You finally break into the business…and they immediately fire you?

When I showed up that first morning I met the production designer, who had a confused look on his face.  He said, “Who are you?” and I proudly replied, “I’m your new assistant.”  He promptly left the room and, about ten minutes later, the production manager came in and said, “I’m sorry, but you are sacked.”

The idea was that the job would go to a relative of the production designer, but the production designer happened to be on vacation when I interviewed, and the producer gave the job to me instead.  When the production designer came back, he told them that my hiring shouldn’t have happened, and I got sacked. As a member of the union they had to give me a two-weeks notice, so I was actually on that movie for two full weeks.  Unfortunately, I didn’t to get a credit.


Did you get a chance to meet Stanley Kubrick?

I met Stanley once during the two weeks I worked on 2001.  I gave him a couple of ideas for one of the sets – if I hadn’t have been sacked already, I’m sure I would have been sacked for talking to the great Stanley Kubrick like that [laughs].  Later on, I worked with Stanley during tests for Barry Lyndon in England.  I actually got to be quite friendly with his daughter and husband through another friend, Steve Lanning, who was an assistant director on Superman.


The special effects world was quite different when you got your start in the late ‘60s.

When I started in the business, it was a job that I loved to do, but it was a job.  It’s only since movies like Star Wars and Superman that effects people have achieved celebrity status and developed their own following. It’s interesting that people are so intrigued with the way that we did things. I get asked about it all the time, because I’m one of a rare breed in that I’ve lived through a digital revolution in special effects.  When I started working in special effects we had no computers, or motion capture and all that.  It was all in-camera, or done on optical print.  It was a different world completely.


In 1971, you worked on Murphy’s War, starring Peter O’Toole.

Peter O’Toole was a legendary actor, nominated eight times for the Academy Award for Best Actor. Working with him was a thrill. Murphy’s War was set in Africa, but we actually filmed in a remote location in Venezuela called Pedernales, also known as Dos Rios, which was roughly 150 miles up the Orinoco River in the middle of the jungle.  I remember a Spanish fort on one side of the river, and the kids who were selling the Spanish doubloons that they had found while scavenging the countryside.


Peter O’Toole in Murphy’s War (1971)

It sounds dangerous!

The nearest town to us was an hour’s flight.  I was just a junior assistant at the time, and I remember being sent into town to buy supplies.  I would fly into town on a four seat DC-3, load up, and fly back. There were other times when I would drive an hour-and-a-half through the jungle.  Looking back now, those trips were dangerous – who knows what would have happened had I broken down, ran out of gas, or encountered bandits along the way.  But in 1970, I was too young to even think about things like that.  The whole trip was just a huge adventure for everybody.


What was it like filming in such a remote locale?

We worked with the local Indians during filming, which was interesting.  They told us that we shouldn’t feed them because their digestive systems weren’t used to the kind of food that we ate.  The movie company built a village by the side of the river, at a point where the river was two miles wide, and the natives actually lived there during filming.  One of the things that we had to do in the movie was to burn the village down and blow it up. This led to confusion, because the natives had been allowed an amazing place to live for a time, and didn’t understand why we had to destroy it.


Peter O’Toole’s character is the sole survivor of the crew of a merchant ship, which had been sunk by a German U-boat.

We brought in a submarine that played the part of a German U-boat hiding in the Amazon River.  For the role, she was modified by the addition of a cigarette deck and was painted with a ‘dazzle’ camouflage pattern.  When filming was over, the submarine was actually sold the Venezuelan government.

Murphy’s War was an amazing journey, because I hadn’t been in the business for very long before being whisked off to a foreign land like Venezuela and spending four months in the jungle.  We also spent four months filming in Malta, which was a British colony in the Mediterranean.  Everyone spoke English and the wine was really cheap.  It was a lovely place.


That same year, you also worked on the cult classic, 200 Motels, written and directed by Frank Zappa and Tony Palmer.

That was a weird movie, as it attempted to portray the craziness of life on the road as a rock musician. Frank Zappa played himself.  Ringo Starr played a dwarf.  Keith Moon, the late drummer for The Who, played a nun. I was young at the time and happy to be working. Getting a chance to interact with people like made it even better.


In 1975, you worked on Lisztomania. Tell me about the controversial director, Ken Russell.

Ken Russell was very talented.  Some of his earlier films, which were focused on classical composers – Elgar, Delius, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, and Franz Liszt – were beautifully done. Ken was also quite a character, the kind who did whatever he wanted and didn’t care what anyone said or thought.


There were more than a few who questioned Ken Russell’s sanity.

During the filming of Lisztomania, even his wife at the time was quoted as saying that she thought he’d had gone crazy [laughs]. He would have these utterly berserk visions of what he wanted to do, and much of it was outlandish sexual imagery.  There’s a dance sequence in the movie involving The Who’s Roger Daltrey, who was playing Franz Liszt. For that scene, we were asked to build a 7-foot penis that was supposedly Roger’s.  And if that weren’t enough, Ken decided that he wanted three dancing girls sitting on it.  It was a very interesting movie to say the least.


In 1975, you also worked on the rock musical Tommy.

I worked as a special effects supervisor on the film, which was a musical fantasy film based upon The Who’s rock opera album Tommy. It was an uncredited job, but it was rich in the respect that I was able to work with some of the biggest names in music – people like Roger Daltrey, Tina Turner, Pete Townshend, Eric Clapton, and Elton John.


Another big break came that same year, when you were asked to work on The Rocky Horror Picture Show.

A good friend of mine had seen the stage production in London, and was wild about it.  I thought it was going to be a pretty crazy movie when I read the script, and also a lot of fun for the audience, so I was excited to be involved with this film. I suppose nobody, not even the people who made the movie, realized how successful that it would go on to be.


The Rocky Horror Picture Show (1975)

Tell me about some of the special effects that you put into place for Rocky Horror.

Doing the rain scene at night was both memorable and interesting, because there was no water. The hotel was actually a country house that sat along the River Thames in Bray.  It didn’t have any water because it was derelict, so we had to put pumps into the River Thames to create the rain.

When the wheelchair gets pulled up the stairs, we actually had the wheelchair on wires.  They didn’t get rid of all of them during post-production, so you can still see some of the wires one the film if you look closely enough.

When Frank N. Furter walks out into the mist and jumps into the swimming pool, they had decided to paint the Sistine Chapel on the bottom of the pool and position a camera up in the ceiling of the stage.  I suggested using dry ice as he walked out on the diving board so that you really wouldn’t know where he was going. Then we used a big electric fan to blow away the ice for the big reveal. It was a nice moment in the film, because it was a good reveal.


Brad and Janet walk hand-in-hand towards the castle in The Rocky Horror Picture Show. The ‘rain’ was pumped in from the nearby River Thames.

Did you use real ice when Meatloaf smashes through the freezer?

No, we used cast wax instead. We made blocks of wax and stacked them up, and that’s what he broke through.


Richard O’Brien wrote Rocky Horror.  What was he like?

Richard was living as an unemployed actor in London during the early 1970s. He wrote most of what was originally titled The Rocky Horror Show during one winter just to occupy himself.  I found him to be very professional.  Jim Sharman was the director, and Richard didn’t seem to interfere with Jim’s direction – which I suppose he had every right to do if he wanted.  It never came across as him being a force in that area.


What about the cast?

The whole cast had worked together before on the London stage show.  They didn’t need any rehearsals, other than rehearsing on location, because working on a stage was obviously much different than working on a film set. But they knew their parts so well, which made shooting pretty easy to do.


In 1978, you landed the job of a lifetime, working on the blockbuster movie Superman.

I have only fond memories of that experience. I actually made the permanent move from London to Canada in 1980, during the filming of Superman II.  I came over for three weeks to shoot the Niagara Falls scene and met my wife, where she worked for the Niagara Parks Police. Three weeks turned into four decades. That blessing happened because of the Superman movies.


Please tell me about the late, great Christopher Reeve.

Chris was a great guy.  I believe he was 23 when he first got the part to play Superman, and he was always in character while on set.  Interestingly enough, he wasn’t the first choice for the role, but they ended up coming back to him. It was the smartest move they could have made.

The film’s tagline was ‘You’ll believe a man can fly.’ (Image copyright © 1978 Warner Bros.)

Why did they originally pass on him for that role?

Chris was the perfect Clark Kent, there were no concerns about that. While he was 6’-4” and very athletic, they thought he was too skinny to play the Man of Steel.  Chris went through an intense two-month training regimen that was supervised by former British weightlifting champion David Prowse, during which he switched to a protein-heavy diet.  It worked, because he came back a different man. Once he got in that suit, he was Superman.


The biggest special effect in the movie – and the one that helped land you an Academy Award – was figuring out how to make Superman fly.

I remember watching the Superman TV series, and I had also gone to those Saturday morning matinees where they had superimposed Superman against a screen, and those scenes always looked terrible.  So the challenge was to make it look like he could really fly.


Easier said than done?

We had some crazy ideas of what we thought would work – for example, we tried sticking a tube up the rear end of a Superman dummy and firing it off of a cannon – but none of those ideas worked well [laughs]. But all of the brainstorming finally paid off. Depending on the scene, we eventually had five different ways that we could make Superman fly. That meant putting Chris into various suits, depending on how we were going to fly him. It turned out very well, given the tools we had at the time.


Give me an example of one of those ways.

Today, with digital effects, when they put someone on a wire, they use heavy duty cord-gauge wire.  We didn’t have all of the digital tools that they have these days, and roller scoping the wires out of the scene was a very difficult process, so we had to try to put him on thin enough wires that couldn’t be seen. It was difficult and it was dangerous, but Chris was great.  I remember him being suspended 60-feet in the air on 16-gauge piano wire.  He would say, “Whether I’m falling sixty feet or fifteen feet, it isn’t going to make a lot of difference.”  Chris was amazing. We had the screen in the background, and a rig that we used to move around, which was very uncomfortable, but he never complained. He would do anything that we wanted him to do.


What was the deal with Superman’s cape?

The cape was one of those things that presented a big problem.  Every time we put Chris up on the wires and turned on the wind, the cape would wrap around the wires, which, of course, didn’t look very heroic [laughs]. So, we had to devise a different way of making it look like Superman’s cape was fluttering in the wind.

Les Bowie, who worked in special effects as a matte artist, came up with this idea of putting a motor on Chris’s back.  The motor had a bunch of sawed-off fishing rods connected to it, which the motor would move, and then we would cover it with the cape and put a bit of wind on it.


The magic motor beneath Superman’s cape – The remote-controlled cape-waving rig devised to allow Superman’s cape to billow as he flies. (Image credit: http://supermania78.com)

Problem solved.

Twenty-five years after Superman I, my nephew was on the effects team for Superman Returns.  He phoned me from Australia, where they were filming, and asked what we did to make the cape flutter. He was amazed at what we were able to accomplish without the aide of digital effects.


Tell me about Marlon Brando.

Unfortunately, we only had Marlon Brando on the set for 10 days.  During that time he had a terrible cold, or the flu, so he wasn’t at his best as far as that goes. It was quite a big deal. By that point in his career he was strictly doing cameo work, and he was paid a record $3.7 million and a healthy percentage of the gross profits for his cameo on Superman.


Did you get to see Brando act while he was on the Superman set?

Yes. The interesting about him was that he wouldn’t – or didn’t want to – learn his lines.  Instead, he insisted on having cue cards positioned all over the place.  A lot of actors use cue cards, but it surprised me that Marlon Brando would do that.  There is the opening scene in Superman where they are sending the child off in a spaceship.  You obviously don’t see this in the finished movie, but instead of a baby in the spaceship, there is a cue card instead.  During filming, every now and again he would sort of do a dramatic look up in the air, and he was actually looking at a cue card.  It was like that during his entire time on set.  He would tell the prop guys where to put the cue cards, and during filming there would be a few pregnant pauses, which allowed him to find where his cue cards were located. It was a technique that I didn’t expect from someone like Marlon Brando, but who am I to judge? He was a legend.


Marlon Brando, who was paid $3.7 million for 10 days worth of work, brought star power to Superman

What about Margot Kidder?

Margot was a sport.  I remember the scene where we put Margot in a car and crushed her.  In Superman II, we threw her in the river.  She was willing to do whatever it took to get the job done [laughs].


What were some of the other challenges faced when filming Superman?

We were about six months into the production of Superman when the team’s morale had hit a low point. The director, Richard Donner, got the editor to put together a 15-minute demo reel, which included the shot of Superman becoming Superman at the Fortress of Solitude, and him flying behind the camera. Richard showed that scene to the whole crew, and you suddenly felt that you were going to be part of something special.  That was Richard Donner’s genius. I remember that he had a sign posted in his office that read ‘verisimilitude,’ and he lived by that mantra. To Richard, he insisted that you must feel like what you’re doing is real, and that’s what we all tried to do.

I remember that Richard Donner had gotten a copy of Star Wars from George Lucas before the film came out, and he showed us that movie. It pumped everyone up, because it was the first time that special effects was a major focal point in a motion picture.


Star Wars changed everything.

Years earlier I had tried to get an English producer to do a movie on the character John Carter of Mars, and the idea was flatly rejected.  They told me that movies like that were finished, and that no one wanted to watch science fiction.  And then Star Wars came out, and suddenly special effects movies were all the rage.


You directed Michael Jackson’s music video Smooth Criminal. The lighting and the costumes – not to mention the dancing – are as amazing today as when the video was first released. Congratulations on a masterpiece!

Thank you. I showed Michael a movie that I felt would fit the theme of the video, something called The Third Man. He loved the film-noir look that it had, so we used it as a blueprint and worked with the camera man to light the video in a similar way.


Is it true that Smooth Criminal is Michael Jackson’s tribute to Fred Astaire?

Yes, in many respects. The dance piece was Michael’s tribute to Fred Astaire, but it goes deeper than that. In the video, Michael wears a similar kind of costume that Fred had used in one of his movies, a film called The Band Wagon. You can compare photos and see what I’m talking about.

We also had the pleasure of having Fred Astaire’s choreographer come on the set, gentleman named Hermes Pan. He worked on a bunch of  films and TV shows with Astaire, including those 1930s musicals with Astaire and Ginger Rogers. He was a giant, having won both an Oscar and an Emmy for his dance direction, so it was a thrill to meet him. He visited the set while we were doing the song and dance piece, and said that Fred would have been very happy and proud of being copied by such a wonderful person.



Michael Jackson pays homage to Fred Astaire with his wardrobe choice in Smooth Criminal

Michael Jackson’s two most famous dance moves are the moonwalk from Billy Jean, and that gravity-defying lean in Smooth Criminal. How did you do it?

The inspiration behind Michael’s gravity-defying lean actually came from my Superman days. It required a bit of ingenuity. We had Michael and the other dancers connected to piano wire, and fixed their feet to the ground so that they could do that famous lean. I fixed their heels to the ground with a slot, so that they were locked into it. If you look in the video, when they come back up from that lean, they kind of shuffle their feet back to unlock themselves from the support they had in the ground.


Michael Jackson seemed like a positive, loving person. What was the mood on the set?

We had 46 dancers, plus the choreographers, hair, make-up, and everything else. Every day at lunchtime we’d go and watch the dailies from the day before. The mood was always festive, and it always felt like there was a party going on in the screening room. Michael would be right there, and there was always a lot of noise and excitement when everyone saw how good the dance sequences looked. If Michael saw something he didn’t like, he would say, “We can do better than that.” He pushed everyone to deliver their very best.


Tell me about your work on Moonwalker.

Moonwalker was Michael’s movie, and he was going to do exactly what he felt he needed to do to make it perfect. The producer, Dennis Jones, was coming in from outside the studio, and his concern was usually centered around the amount of time we were taking. He had a habit of walking towards me and looking at his watch. Jerry Kramer, who co-directed Moonwalker, always had the same thing to say: “Dennis, with Michael, you don’t need a watch, you need a calendar.”  That’s because Michael wanted it to be perfect, and he was in the unusual position where money wasn’t an object. He was only concerned about perfecting his art, and that’s the way he was.  Not the usual way to make a Hollywood movie, that’s for sure.


Special effects were changing around the time that Moonwalker was made.

We were using a lot of innovative techniques, especially for those days, because this was just before the real digital era kicked in. We were using motion capture, motion control – the robot was all motion controlled. We did a lot of mattes, and things like that. We built some beautiful sets. We actually shot in the same studio in Culver City, where they shot Gone with the Wind, which was kind of neat.


How did you land a job working with Michael Jackson, King of Pop?

Avi Arad, who was the founder of Marvel Studios, once told me that there is no such thing as luck, but in this case I felt lucky to be in the right place at the right time. I was shooting a commercial in Los Angeles, and I had an effects guy named Kevin Pike working it with me. Kevin had just finished shooting Back to the Future, and Michael really liked that movie, especially the DeLorean. Michael had spoken to Kevin about the effects that he wanted to do for a music video. Kevin asked him who was going to direct it, and Michael explained that all the big-name directors like Steven Spielberg were busy for the next two years. That’s when Kevin suggested me to direct. He then came to me and asked if I would like to meet Michael Jackson. I looked at it as the ideal opportunity to get through the door, as it were.


Did the two of you hit it off?

Michael and I got along quite well during that initial meeting, and the next thing you know I’m flying back to Los Angeles. I remember checking in at the Château Marmont, and a very interested guy behind the front desk says, “Excuse me sir, there is a call for you. It’s Michael Jackson.” And it was! I was pleasantly surprised to learn that Michael had just called me to say, “Welcome aboard, let’s get together tomorrow.” We seemed to click from the very beginning.


Michael Jackson and Colin Chilvers share a quiet moment together. Chilvers would direct the Smooth Criminal video and co-direct Jackson’s feature-length film Moonwalker. The two would become fast friends. (image courtesy of Colin Chilvers)

Was Michael Jackson shy?

I got the sense that he wasn’t as shy with me as he normally was with people that he met for the first time. We discussed various things that he wanted to do with the music video, as well as with the 42-minute Smooth Criminal sequence that was  Moonwalker’s centerpiece. Above all else, Michael made it clear that he wanted it to be a movie for kids. I had experience in this area – I had done a two-hour show about Pippi Longstocking for ABC, and I had done a lot of kid’s toy commercials for Hot Wheels, Barbie, and things like that – , and he really liked that. He also liked the fact that I had gotten an Academy Award for special effects for Superman. What he wanted to do with Moonwalker involved a lot of special effects, so he thought it would be a good idea if I worked with him.


How long did you work with Michael Jackson on this project?

What started out as a music video grew into a 42-minute movie that took nearly two years to produce. It wasn’t supposed to be that long – we shot for 18 weeks, which was a lot longer than I thought it would take – but Michael was working on the Bad album, and then he went on tour, and then they had to finish the album when he returned. So they put us all on hold for three months while he finished the album. Working with Michael on that project was a fun period of time in my life. We had Joe Pesci and Sean Lennon on set, and of course we had the dance piece in the middle of Smooth Criminal. I was able to come up with that famous lean, so everyone walked away happy.

Michael Jackson’s gravity-defying lean created buzz worldwide, and became one of Colin Chilvers’ most famous special effects.

Looking back now, what was it like working with the King of Pop?

That was a good period in my life that was very well enjoyed by me and my family, especially my wife. We had some very nice dinners with Michael, and sometimes Bubbles would join us. It was an interesting time to be around Michael, because he was so on top of the game at that point. He had just come up with Thriller, and was doing Bad, and we had everything we wanted. Working with Michael Jackson was a dream come true, and it was amazing in all ways.


Your nephews have worked on some of the biggest films ever made.

I have four Corbould nephews from England who are all working in special effects – Chris, Ian, Paul, and Neil.  Two of them have won Academy Awards.  Neil got his start with me on Superman, and has gone on to work on some of the biggest films, such as Gladiator, Saving Private Ryan, Rogue One: A Star Wars Story and Black Hawk Down.  He’s also done several of the James Bond films.  He’s been nominated for four Academy Awards, and has won two Oscars – one for his work on Gladiator, and another for Gravity.

Chris has worked on eleven James Bond films and counting since the early 1980s.  He’s also worked extensively on the Batman films – Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, The Dark Knight Rises – and has an Oscar for Inception, as well as nominations for four other films, including Star Wars: The Force Awakens and Star Wars: The Last Jedi.

Paul has two Academy Award nominations, both for Best Visual Effects in the movies Guardians of the Galaxy and Doctor Strange.  Ian has worked with his brothers on many of these films as either a special effects technician or special effects supervisor.  The four of them are sort of the top-notch crew in England at the moment, and a good way to segue toward what I’m leaving behind, as I’m not in the movies anymore.  The fact that they’ve all followed in my footsteps is my legacy to the movie business.


Neil Corbould, Colin Chilvers’ nephew, celebrates his own Oscar win

Special effects has changed a lot since your time working on Inspector Clouseau.

There have been some incredible advances thanks to the Digital Revolution. But then again, a lot of things haven’t changed. For instance, on the movie Gravity, Neil had to make Sandra Bullock fly on a wire – actually, he used a bunch of wires so that he had complete access to all of her movements. There was no other way of doing it because you still can’t make an actor act as a digital image. It ended up being a pretty amazing effect.


What is one of your proudest moments as a special effects artist?

That would probably be during the first Superman movie, when we were playing around and trying to make a vortex. I actually put together a rig that created a perfect miniature twister that was about six or eight feet high.  That was my most proud moment, strangely enough, because it required a high degree of problem-solving.  The ability to problem solve is still a big part of special effects today, except that they have a lot more tools to work with in the digital world.


Any regrets?

My agent once came to me and asked if I would be interested in working on this weird movie about the Nazis finding the Ark of the Covenant. I passed on it and, of course, Raiders of the Lost Ark ended up winning an Academy Award and becoming one of the most iconic movies ever [laughs].


Now that you’ve retired, how do you reflect on your career?

I’ve enjoyed my career. Now and again I’m asked about movies that I don’t even remember doing, like Saturn 3. Those experiences are all part of the journey, just like going to Venezuela for those four months to shoot Murphy’s War. You look back on something like that and can’t help but wonder how you survived.

When I was leaving for art school at 16, who would have thought? I come from a working class family in London, and suddenly I was thrown into this sort of business, going to the exotic places and doing things that you would never have thought possible. It’s just incredible when you think about it. You can get a bit immune to it in the end, but thinking back on it now, it has been a pretty amazing life.

Retired from special effects, Chilvers continues to work – his Oscar statue never very far behind (image courtesy of Colin Chilvers)

Last question: If you could offer a piece of life advice to others, what would that be? The headmaster of my primary school once said to me, “Son, you’re going to work a third of your life, enjoy it.” And I can certainly say that I’ve enjoyed that third of my life because it was such an amazing journey. My advice would be to pursue what you are most passionate about, because you only get one chance to do this thing called life.